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	<title>Comments on: Nine Ways Global Warming Could Rapidly Change The Earth (Tipping Point Apocalypse)</title>
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	<link>http://www.blog.thesietch.org/2008/02/19/nine-ways-global-warming-could-rapidly-change-the-earth-tipping-point-apocalypse/</link>
	<description>The voice of The Sietch community</description>
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		<title>By: H.Oldeboom</title>
		<link>http://www.blog.thesietch.org/2008/02/19/nine-ways-global-warming-could-rapidly-change-the-earth-tipping-point-apocalypse/comment-page-1/#comment-84721</link>
		<dc:creator>H.Oldeboom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jul 2008 16:35:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blog.thesietch.org/2008/02/19/nine-ways-global-warming-could-rapidly-change-the-earth-tipping-point-apocalypse/#comment-84721</guid>
		<description>Warming or cooling, it will happen without interference of man. The point is that on the warming site a lot of fanatics (Greenpeace, WNF, socialists etc.etc) are meeting each other to prepare a new, ecological society under UN control. Freedom will certainly disappear because they will organize the world&#039;s energy need on a &quot;natural&quot; way which means there will be a continuous shortage of it and therefore people will became POOR.Look at the energy price and food price increase of the last 1 1/2 year. This is a classical example of -  To be  or not to be - Freedom is endangered.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Warming or cooling, it will happen without interference of man. The point is that on the warming site a lot of fanatics (Greenpeace, WNF, socialists etc.etc) are meeting each other to prepare a new, ecological society under UN control. Freedom will certainly disappear because they will organize the world&#8217;s energy need on a &#8220;natural&#8221; way which means there will be a continuous shortage of it and therefore people will became POOR.Look at the energy price and food price increase of the last 1 1/2 year. This is a classical example of &#8211;  To be  or not to be &#8211; Freedom is endangered.</p>
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		<title>By: Johnnyb</title>
		<link>http://www.blog.thesietch.org/2008/02/19/nine-ways-global-warming-could-rapidly-change-the-earth-tipping-point-apocalypse/comment-page-1/#comment-84672</link>
		<dc:creator>Johnnyb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jul 2008 04:29:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blog.thesietch.org/2008/02/19/nine-ways-global-warming-could-rapidly-change-the-earth-tipping-point-apocalypse/#comment-84672</guid>
		<description>Trouble is Naib, Warmists are not making a very strong case, and what is worse they are making a case for Global Warming while the Earth is actually cooling.  That and they are a dismal lot, who honestly believe that this Global Warming thing is the MOST important issue currently facing humanity, and insist that we give up our freedom and our national prosperiety for something that most of us do not care about or do not think is even happening.

You Warmists like to pretend like it is a case closed deal, but anyone who really looks into the issue for themselves can tell that the case for AGW is exceedingly weak and grossly overstated.  I feel as though I am being pressured to buy something that I do not want and do not believe that I need.  What&#039;s worse many of the &quot;solutions&quot; that are being proposed will lead to real environmental problems, such as bio-fuel and wind power.  Even nuclear power is not something that should be rushed into, although if AGW turns out to be real then we should start building nuclear plants.

If the Global Warmists slow down and stop the hysterics, then it might be possible to create a reasonable solution which will improve out lives and our livelihoods rather than be a destructive force to our personal wellbeing.

Understand that everyone wants to live in an age of abundance.  No one wants to go without or see anyone else go without.  I want everyone to be well feed, free and wealthy enough to do what they want in life.  I want this for everyone, not just me.  Energy is key to maintaining an abundance for everyone, so when someone starts talking about getting by with less, I turn them off because they are not proposing a solution but rather they are merely making trouble for us common folk.

So assume that we really do need to reduce our carbon emissions, what could we do to accomplish this goal without sacrificing our freedom, prosperiety or comfort, but instead increasing all of these things?  Why don&#039;t the Global Warming people propose doing something like creating a high speed train network here in America like they have in Europe?  That would reduce the need to use cars and Jets airplanes right?  It would enhance our freedom and might even lower our travel expenses, while lowering our CO2 output.

Why not propose rebuilding our cities to support denser population densities, while making them beautiful.  This could be done writing a building code through something like HUD which could provide interest free loans to building projects which not only enhance our energy efficiency but also our culture.  Provide they exclude corporate builders, they could be made interest free so we all become a wealthier more cultured civilization.

I see the global warming as people who are really not interested in building anything that will improve our lives or our culture, but rather as promoters of policies that will destroy culture by promoting corporate builders or destroying wealth by promoting foolishness like running a country on wind and solar, while ignoring the fact that the price of gasoline is the big issue now, and unless something is done about it, it will only increase the cost of taking steps that will be needed to build a better world to a standard that everyone can agree on.

Alarmism is bad politics and bad form.  If Global Warming is real it is not something that is going to go away and it is not something that we need to make heroic efforts to solve tomarrow.  Right now that facts on the ground appear that Global Warming peaked and now the Earth is entering a cooling period, so the whole thing might have been a false alarm, and for what?  To make us all feel less secure and guilty about living our lives?  I honestly resent the tone of the Global Warming people, and think that the whole thing is a hoax which is the reason for the alarmism.  They need people to act quick so a few rich people like T. Boone can get rich before the weather changes.  Sorry, but I am not buying until there is stronger evidence for the case of Global Warming.

Although, fast trains, nuclear power and geothermal likely would not be bad deals, Global Warming or not.  To avoid skeptics like me, it would behoove your cause to champion policies that would be good whether there is Global Warming or not.  You might get a lot more traction that way, FYI.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Trouble is Naib, Warmists are not making a very strong case, and what is worse they are making a case for Global Warming while the Earth is actually cooling.  That and they are a dismal lot, who honestly believe that this Global Warming thing is the MOST important issue currently facing humanity, and insist that we give up our freedom and our national prosperiety for something that most of us do not care about or do not think is even happening.</p>
<p>You Warmists like to pretend like it is a case closed deal, but anyone who really looks into the issue for themselves can tell that the case for AGW is exceedingly weak and grossly overstated.  I feel as though I am being pressured to buy something that I do not want and do not believe that I need.  What&#8217;s worse many of the &#8220;solutions&#8221; that are being proposed will lead to real environmental problems, such as bio-fuel and wind power.  Even nuclear power is not something that should be rushed into, although if AGW turns out to be real then we should start building nuclear plants.</p>
<p>If the Global Warmists slow down and stop the hysterics, then it might be possible to create a reasonable solution which will improve out lives and our livelihoods rather than be a destructive force to our personal wellbeing.</p>
<p>Understand that everyone wants to live in an age of abundance.  No one wants to go without or see anyone else go without.  I want everyone to be well feed, free and wealthy enough to do what they want in life.  I want this for everyone, not just me.  Energy is key to maintaining an abundance for everyone, so when someone starts talking about getting by with less, I turn them off because they are not proposing a solution but rather they are merely making trouble for us common folk.</p>
<p>So assume that we really do need to reduce our carbon emissions, what could we do to accomplish this goal without sacrificing our freedom, prosperiety or comfort, but instead increasing all of these things?  Why don&#8217;t the Global Warming people propose doing something like creating a high speed train network here in America like they have in Europe?  That would reduce the need to use cars and Jets airplanes right?  It would enhance our freedom and might even lower our travel expenses, while lowering our CO2 output.</p>
<p>Why not propose rebuilding our cities to support denser population densities, while making them beautiful.  This could be done writing a building code through something like HUD which could provide interest free loans to building projects which not only enhance our energy efficiency but also our culture.  Provide they exclude corporate builders, they could be made interest free so we all become a wealthier more cultured civilization.</p>
<p>I see the global warming as people who are really not interested in building anything that will improve our lives or our culture, but rather as promoters of policies that will destroy culture by promoting corporate builders or destroying wealth by promoting foolishness like running a country on wind and solar, while ignoring the fact that the price of gasoline is the big issue now, and unless something is done about it, it will only increase the cost of taking steps that will be needed to build a better world to a standard that everyone can agree on.</p>
<p>Alarmism is bad politics and bad form.  If Global Warming is real it is not something that is going to go away and it is not something that we need to make heroic efforts to solve tomarrow.  Right now that facts on the ground appear that Global Warming peaked and now the Earth is entering a cooling period, so the whole thing might have been a false alarm, and for what?  To make us all feel less secure and guilty about living our lives?  I honestly resent the tone of the Global Warming people, and think that the whole thing is a hoax which is the reason for the alarmism.  They need people to act quick so a few rich people like T. Boone can get rich before the weather changes.  Sorry, but I am not buying until there is stronger evidence for the case of Global Warming.</p>
<p>Although, fast trains, nuclear power and geothermal likely would not be bad deals, Global Warming or not.  To avoid skeptics like me, it would behoove your cause to champion policies that would be good whether there is Global Warming or not.  You might get a lot more traction that way, FYI.</p>
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		<title>By: The Naib</title>
		<link>http://www.blog.thesietch.org/2008/02/19/nine-ways-global-warming-could-rapidly-change-the-earth-tipping-point-apocalypse/comment-page-1/#comment-84667</link>
		<dc:creator>The Naib</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jul 2008 01:20:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blog.thesietch.org/2008/02/19/nine-ways-global-warming-could-rapidly-change-the-earth-tipping-point-apocalypse/#comment-84667</guid>
		<description>Hello H.

So if someone was on a sinking ship and they desperately wanted you to get into the life boat, you wouldn&#039;t listen to them because they were panicking? 

Besides most of these people are not panicking, they are very very concerned.  You should be smart enough to know the difference</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello H.</p>
<p>So if someone was on a sinking ship and they desperately wanted you to get into the life boat, you wouldn&#8217;t listen to them because they were panicking? </p>
<p>Besides most of these people are not panicking, they are very very concerned.  You should be smart enough to know the difference</p>
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		<title>By: H.Oldeboom</title>
		<link>http://www.blog.thesietch.org/2008/02/19/nine-ways-global-warming-could-rapidly-change-the-earth-tipping-point-apocalypse/comment-page-1/#comment-84659</link>
		<dc:creator>H.Oldeboom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jul 2008 19:34:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blog.thesietch.org/2008/02/19/nine-ways-global-warming-could-rapidly-change-the-earth-tipping-point-apocalypse/#comment-84659</guid>
		<description>I never believe what people are saying when they are panicking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I never believe what people are saying when they are panicking.</p>
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		<title>By: The Sietch Blog &#187; 20 Years Of Global Warming Inaction: We Can&#8217;t Afford Another 20</title>
		<link>http://www.blog.thesietch.org/2008/02/19/nine-ways-global-warming-could-rapidly-change-the-earth-tipping-point-apocalypse/comment-page-1/#comment-84447</link>
		<dc:creator>The Sietch Blog &#187; 20 Years Of Global Warming Inaction: We Can&#8217;t Afford Another 20</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jun 2008 15:43:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blog.thesietch.org/2008/02/19/nine-ways-global-warming-could-rapidly-change-the-earth-tipping-point-apocalypse/#comment-84447</guid>
		<description>[...] gas concentrations have already reached damaging levels and the climate is nearing a dangerous tipping point that will unleash far-reaching changes in the atmosphere and oceans that could take millennia [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] gas concentrations have already reached damaging levels and the climate is nearing a dangerous tipping point that will unleash far-reaching changes in the atmosphere and oceans that could take millennia [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Quick Green Reads For The Weekend Volume Fifty Three. &#124; The Good Human</title>
		<link>http://www.blog.thesietch.org/2008/02/19/nine-ways-global-warming-could-rapidly-change-the-earth-tipping-point-apocalypse/comment-page-1/#comment-82236</link>
		<dc:creator>Quick Green Reads For The Weekend Volume Fifty Three. &#124; The Good Human</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2008 15:00:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blog.thesietch.org/2008/02/19/nine-ways-global-warming-could-rapidly-change-the-earth-tipping-point-apocalypse/#comment-82236</guid>
		<description>[...] In complex systems, especially big complex systems, feedback loops can develop. Lets take the earth as an example. It is by just about everyones measure a very large, and very complex system, it has many feed back loops. A good example might be the melting of arctic sea ice, the ice melts (due to global warming) exposing more dark sea water which absorbs more heat than the reflective ice, which warms the water, which melts more ice…it’s a vicious cycle. There comes a point in that process, a tipping point, in which the system spirals rapidly out of control, a victim of its own feedback. Arctic sea ice melting is not the only process on earth with a feedback loop, and it is not the only one that could experience a tipping point. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] In complex systems, especially big complex systems, feedback loops can develop. Lets take the earth as an example. It is by just about everyones measure a very large, and very complex system, it has many feed back loops. A good example might be the melting of arctic sea ice, the ice melts (due to global warming) exposing more dark sea water which absorbs more heat than the reflective ice, which warms the water, which melts more ice…it’s a vicious cycle. There comes a point in that process, a tipping point, in which the system spirals rapidly out of control, a victim of its own feedback. Arctic sea ice melting is not the only process on earth with a feedback loop, and it is not the only one that could experience a tipping point. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Johnnyb</title>
		<link>http://www.blog.thesietch.org/2008/02/19/nine-ways-global-warming-could-rapidly-change-the-earth-tipping-point-apocalypse/comment-page-1/#comment-82228</link>
		<dc:creator>Johnnyb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2008 23:19:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blog.thesietch.org/2008/02/19/nine-ways-global-warming-could-rapidly-change-the-earth-tipping-point-apocalypse/#comment-82228</guid>
		<description>Well Keith, how about the fact that according to GISS global Temperatures have fallen 0.75 degrees since last January?  What about the fact that there is absolutely no evidence to support the zany claims of one world government zealots in the UN and their lap dog the IPCC.

How long are the results going to have to not match the looney predicitions of doom by the IPCC, for you to accept that they are full of crap.  This solar cycle is late, which means that the world is going to get cool.  The last solar cycles were early, which kept the Earth warm.

There have been peer reviewed papers out of China and Russia that claim that we are going into as period of Global Cooling.  So there.  You&#039;ve been duped!

Want more evidence?  How about the fact that none of the Global Warming lunatics are doing anything to reduce their own CO2 emissions?  Only thing that can stop increasing CO2 emissions is to greatly reduce the human population, and I have not seen any of the advocates volunteer.  Maybe if David Suzuki and Algore lead a mass suicide, I might be convinced that they actually believe their own bullshit, but the truth is, that this whole thing is a conjob and the new face of Nazism.

Now if you can find me a peer reviewed paper that proves that it is not a new manifestation of Nazism then I might revise my current position, but it damn sure looks like an excuse to kill a whole bunch of people to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well Keith, how about the fact that according to GISS global Temperatures have fallen 0.75 degrees since last January?  What about the fact that there is absolutely no evidence to support the zany claims of one world government zealots in the UN and their lap dog the IPCC.</p>
<p>How long are the results going to have to not match the looney predicitions of doom by the IPCC, for you to accept that they are full of crap.  This solar cycle is late, which means that the world is going to get cool.  The last solar cycles were early, which kept the Earth warm.</p>
<p>There have been peer reviewed papers out of China and Russia that claim that we are going into as period of Global Cooling.  So there.  You&#8217;ve been duped!</p>
<p>Want more evidence?  How about the fact that none of the Global Warming lunatics are doing anything to reduce their own CO2 emissions?  Only thing that can stop increasing CO2 emissions is to greatly reduce the human population, and I have not seen any of the advocates volunteer.  Maybe if David Suzuki and Algore lead a mass suicide, I might be convinced that they actually believe their own bullshit, but the truth is, that this whole thing is a conjob and the new face of Nazism.</p>
<p>Now if you can find me a peer reviewed paper that proves that it is not a new manifestation of Nazism then I might revise my current position, but it damn sure looks like an excuse to kill a whole bunch of people to me.</p>
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		<title>By: keithf</title>
		<link>http://www.blog.thesietch.org/2008/02/19/nine-ways-global-warming-could-rapidly-change-the-earth-tipping-point-apocalypse/comment-page-1/#comment-82215</link>
		<dc:creator>keithf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2008 13:07:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blog.thesietch.org/2008/02/19/nine-ways-global-warming-could-rapidly-change-the-earth-tipping-point-apocalypse/#comment-82215</guid>
		<description>BTW, Dan, I think you&#039;ll find it&#039;s more like 99% of humanity will be wiped out by runaway climate change.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BTW, Dan, I think you&#8217;ll find it&#8217;s more like 99% of humanity will be wiped out by runaway climate change.</p>
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		<title>By: keithf</title>
		<link>http://www.blog.thesietch.org/2008/02/19/nine-ways-global-warming-could-rapidly-change-the-earth-tipping-point-apocalypse/comment-page-1/#comment-82214</link>
		<dc:creator>keithf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2008 13:07:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blog.thesietch.org/2008/02/19/nine-ways-global-warming-could-rapidly-change-the-earth-tipping-point-apocalypse/#comment-82214</guid>
		<description>For god&#039;s sake Johnny and Dan, how much more bloody evidence do you need before you turn your obvious fear into some useful action?

I&#039;m bored with refuting AGW sceptics so won&#039;t even bother. Find me one peer-reviewed paper that puts serious doubt on AGW then I will take your views seriously.

K</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For god&#8217;s sake Johnny and Dan, how much more bloody evidence do you need before you turn your obvious fear into some useful action?</p>
<p>I&#8217;m bored with refuting AGW sceptics so won&#8217;t even bother. Find me one peer-reviewed paper that puts serious doubt on AGW then I will take your views seriously.</p>
<p>K</p>
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		<title>By: Johnnyb</title>
		<link>http://www.blog.thesietch.org/2008/02/19/nine-ways-global-warming-could-rapidly-change-the-earth-tipping-point-apocalypse/comment-page-1/#comment-82205</link>
		<dc:creator>Johnnyb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Feb 2008 23:27:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blog.thesietch.org/2008/02/19/nine-ways-global-warming-could-rapidly-change-the-earth-tipping-point-apocalypse/#comment-82205</guid>
		<description>Ah, runaway Global Warming the ultimate alarmist fantasy.  I guess they got to go all out now that the World is getting cooler and the solar minimum hit before they were able to create a One World Socialist State and kill off 80% of all humanity.  Shucks, the gig is up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah, runaway Global Warming the ultimate alarmist fantasy.  I guess they got to go all out now that the World is getting cooler and the solar minimum hit before they were able to create a One World Socialist State and kill off 80% of all humanity.  Shucks, the gig is up.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Pangburn</title>
		<link>http://www.blog.thesietch.org/2008/02/19/nine-ways-global-warming-could-rapidly-change-the-earth-tipping-point-apocalypse/comment-page-1/#comment-82198</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Pangburn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Feb 2008 18:05:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blog.thesietch.org/2008/02/19/nine-ways-global-warming-could-rapidly-change-the-earth-tipping-point-apocalypse/#comment-82198</guid>
		<description>For 22 years, from 1976 to 1998, carbon dioxide level and average earth temperature both increased. This resulted in a scary Hollywood movie and world-wide global warming hysteria. Group-think developed in the climate science community where peer-review bias led to de facto censorship and a paucity of published studies that objectively investigate the extent to which human-produced carbon dioxide contributes to global warming. It has been over nine years now and atmospheric carbon dioxide level has continued to increase but temperature has gone down. Apparently no one did any real research before or they would have discovered that 440 mya the planet plunged into the Andean-Saharan ice age when atmospheric carbon dioxide was over ten times the present level (http://earthguide.ucsd.edu/virtualmuseum/climatechange2/07_1.shtml ). With a little further real research they would have discovered that, in the current ice age, temperature trends have changed direction at many different temperature levels. This could not occur if there was significant positive feedback. They might have also noticed that carbon dioxide level change lagged temperature change by hundreds of years. The forced conclusion from all this is that non-condensing greenhouse gas, and therefore human activity, has no significant influence on global temperature.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For 22 years, from 1976 to 1998, carbon dioxide level and average earth temperature both increased. This resulted in a scary Hollywood movie and world-wide global warming hysteria. Group-think developed in the climate science community where peer-review bias led to de facto censorship and a paucity of published studies that objectively investigate the extent to which human-produced carbon dioxide contributes to global warming. It has been over nine years now and atmospheric carbon dioxide level has continued to increase but temperature has gone down. Apparently no one did any real research before or they would have discovered that 440 mya the planet plunged into the Andean-Saharan ice age when atmospheric carbon dioxide was over ten times the present level (<a href="http://earthguide.ucsd.edu/virtualmuseum/climatechange2/07_1.shtml" rel="nofollow">http://earthguide.ucsd.edu/virtualmuseum/climatechange2/07_1.shtml</a> ). With a little further real research they would have discovered that, in the current ice age, temperature trends have changed direction at many different temperature levels. This could not occur if there was significant positive feedback. They might have also noticed that carbon dioxide level change lagged temperature change by hundreds of years. The forced conclusion from all this is that non-condensing greenhouse gas, and therefore human activity, has no significant influence on global temperature.</p>
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